Together We Heal is for any who suffer from the trauma of childhood sexual abuse. We provide a safe forum for survivors of abuse to share, learn and heal. We work to expose sexual predators and their methods of getting into our lives.
On the May 2nd edition of Tom Ascol’s show “The Sword and The Trowel”, he chose to platform and promote the career of Pastor Mike Stone. Stone is running for President of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Mike Stone attempted to use the case of Trinity Baptist church in Ashburn Georgia as the prime example of why his approach, to the sexual abuse crisis in the Southern Baptist Convention, is the best.
“Third time’s the charm”, that’s what we’re told, right? On their third attempt to honor the wishes of Messengers, the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee voted 44 to 31 to waive attorney-client privilege (albeit in a VERY limited manner) and agree to the contract with Guidepost to begin the investigation on sexual abuse.
But let’s be honest, this is not an investigation on all cases of sexual abuse within the SBC. It’s only about the last 20 years and only within the SBC EC. Is there already a documented case of libel regarding a case of sexual abuse? Yes. And will there be more cases of cover-ups/abuse/etc.? Most certainly. But now, only because of waving ACP is there the remotest of chances to get to the truth.
And it almost didn’t happen.
I watched the entire session. Well, the ones that weren’t behind closed doors. And it was clear there was a division within the ranks. Both sides offered passionate arguments that they BOTH genuinely believe. And that’s the hard part to take as a survivor of sexual abuse perpetrated by an SBC minister.
Phyllis Inghram all but said when she quoted Matthew 10:16, that we the victims of sexual abuse, had created a “hostile environment” and called US the wolves in sheep’s clothing. She said “they” needed to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
Were they all being harmless when Jen Lyell was slandered by the SBC EC and many of the SBC members?
Were they being harmless when they called Christa Brown evil?
Were they being harmless when they told me, “Sorry, nothing we can do for you or to stop a known sexual predator, but we’ll pray for you.”?
Yes, I know Ms. Inghram has resigned from the EC, but does it matter now? Her words cut like a knife to my soul, and I wasn’t the only one she impaled.
Even now, because of the SBC’s and Georgia Baptist Mission Board’s failures, a KNOWN, ADMITTED sexual predator is back at a church and trying to sell books about how to be better at worship. Going so far as to ask for media interviews to promote said books and asking if one would make a good movie.
This would be a ridiculously absurd joke if it wasn’t a cold, disgusting fact.
Joe Knott, attorney, and EC member said these things:
He went into great detail about law and order. Explained to us how God created the United States and its laws for our protection. Explained to us how law and order was from God. As if we needed his explanation on law on order.
Was he insinuating that a vote to waive ACP is a vote against God? Sure sounded like it.
He went on to say, “Laws are to restrain evil. Laws come from God.”
So what are we as survivors of sexual abuse? Are we the evil in need of restraint in this narrative of his? And what about the laws broken when we were molested and raped? Do those not count in his perspective?
He continued, “What we are about to do is create chaos.”
So now WE are the ones creating chaos? What about the chaos of 3 decades of my life because none cared to hear my story or stop a predator? And I am not the only one. Now there is an admission from my abuser and from several other victims who’ve come forward to say it happened to them also.
Said Knott, “There may not be a Convention to face”.
Again, a convention before a soul? One single soul? It’s ridiculous.
As Dr. Diane Langberg said at the SBC Caring Well event, “Jesus was not crucified for our systems.”
And over the last 3 weeks we’ve heard these things ad nauseum, “This will void our insurance” & “All advice we received is against waiving privilege”.
The attorneys hired by the SBC EC were only presenting one side. They were only giving one argument. There were no attorneys asked to give the alternative argument. Even though Rachael Denhollander was posting publicly in every place she could WHY they could and should waive privilege.
I also kept hearing the arguments against waiving privilege being about “loss”. Loss of insurance. Loss of fiduciary responsibility. Loss of money. Loss of a Convention.
You know what I didn’t hear? Not one single time?
The concern for what victims of sexual abuse have lost.
Victims of sexual abuse have lost their way, their identity, lost our minds. We’ve lost jobs, families and in far too many cases, our lives. Suicide, overdoses, premature deaths from trauma.
And what about the souls lost because of sexual abuse? Isn’t that what the SBC is supposed to care the most about? And yet predators and their enablers have made it so there’s no way many victims would ever again be receptive to God. What about THAT loss?
When they broke from their last private Executive session, in which I am sure every single attorney gave their hardest (possibly intimidating), attempt to persuade against waiving privilege, there is an immediate motion made to replace the Wellman motion.
At the last minute there was a clear intent, by using Roberts Rules of Order (parliamentary rules), to confuse and frustrate members in order to defeat the motion put forward by Jared Wellman.
But thankfully, pastor Rolland Slade took a moment, gathered good information and was able to get the EC back on track. The final vote being 44 to waive and 31 against.
It’s a win but not a big win. And certainly not anywhere near getting the SBC and all its churches and members to a place where sexual abuse is actively worked against, victims are properly helped with trauma-informed care and predators are named, exposed, and forever prohibited from serving in any SBC church or any conceivable entity with ties to the SBC.
A former SBC VP said just one day after the vote, that the efforts made by survivors to persuade EC members to waive ACP were “online attacks against good men and women…Carnal, ungodly & evil…the ends never justify the means.”
Really Mr. former 2nd VP? We are carnal, ungodly, and evil? This folks, is the battle we face in ridding the SBC from sexual predators and their enablers.
At last the truth is made known in the national media. At last predators like the one who murdered the innocence of my childhood and derailed my life for decades can no longer hide behind a church wall and pastor’s robe. And as you will read, our stories are not the exception, they are the rule. To abuse, deny, cover-up, victim shame and silence has been the “MO” for decades. Mine and countless others. I know most of you have probably read Part 1 of this story, but we are posting all 3 parts here so you can grasp the totality of the reach of sexual abuse within the SBC.
Please read, share, and then call your Pastor and DEMAND that change, REAL change be made. No more lip service. No more platitudes. This is not a Catholic problem. This is a HUMAN PROBLEM that exists in every denomination. Sexual predators use the church because people of faith are more trusting and forgiving and this is turned against them and used in evil, manipulating ways.
We must strike while the iron is hot and before it gets buried in the next news cycle. Please don’t let anymore time pass. Don’t assume someone else will speak to your church leadership. This is up to you now…
This week Together We Heal, as an organization, and myself, David Pittman as an individual, have joined forces with Justice For Anne, For A Time Such As This & several fellow advocates. Together we have issued a statement that was most perfectly articulated by fellow advocate Ryan Ashton:
“If you please, read the joint statement myself and fellow abuse survivors and advocates delivered to the president of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) yesterday regarding their announcement of a sexual abuse study group:
“We all have a decision—to become more polarized and distrustful of one another, hide, build barriers, and perpetuate numerous injustices. Or we can face this evil together, choosing to create a culture where healing and safety are the norm, where love and compassion dwell, where children and families flourish, and the hope of the gospel maintains its integrity. We sign with that hope, committed to a future where no one in the Church has to say “Me Too” ever again.”
Everything we do at Together We Heal and GRACE is because of the past and current failures of those within the church to better protect children and properly respond to those who’ve been harmed. It is our hope that the SBC will begin to live up to the call of Christ they espouse and not be just another one of those “cast to the bottom of the sea with a millstone around their neck”.
If not now, then when? If not us, then who?
The time is long overdue. The ball is in your court SBC leaders and church members. Do you truly believe the scripture you preach and teach? Then BE THE VOICE OF THE VOICELESS and quit giving lip service and protecting sexual predators.
We are so honored by our friend, Boz Tchividjian, who has posted the interview he did with me about Together We Heal and what we’re doing to help our fellow survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Please take a moment to read, not just our interview, but all of the inspiring articles Boz has on his site. I cannot thank him enough for the issues he’s confronting head-on within the church and it’s neglect of those abused. We look forward to working together with him and his organization, G.R.A.C.E. http://netgrace.org (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment)
As a member of the Episcopal Church here in the United States, and a survivor of CSA at the hands of a clergy member I have only one thing to say…Thank God!!! In the various 12-Step programs you hear all the time, admitting there is a problem is the first step. Well, they have not only admitted to the problem, they are seeking ways to prevent it from happening in the first place. At the bottom of this post you will find two articles that are prime examples of what should take place.
Unlike their Roman Catholic, Jewish Orthodox, and Southern Baptist counterparts, and essentially EVERY other religious group, who choose to remain in denial, deflection and dogma that says defend the institution rather than the children, the Church of England has come to its senses and is no longer protecting these pedophiles priests. They have now taken the lead and done what hopefully all schools, religious organizations and civic groups will do. Quit worrying about how much money it’s going to cost them in litigation and do the right thing! They have made a public statement acknowledging the wrongdoing, the cover-ups and how they will protect children and not the church as an organization.
Even though the abuse that happened to me occurred at another denomination, it told me I made the right choice in selecting this one to continue my spiritual growth. The church I once belonged to, more specifically, the church I had dedicated my life to, the Southern Baptist, have not only ignored my plea’s to remove the man who sexually abused me and at least 7 others that I know of, they have told me in no uncertain terms, its not their problem…each church is independent of one another and them as a convention. All of which are bold-faced lies. If each “independent” church doesn’t send the convention a certain amount of dollars, they are denied representation at the national convention. Does that sound autonomous or independent to you? The RCC and the SBC have shown their administrations true colors time and time again, they don’t really care about the protection of children. They either deny, deny, deny or they want to pay “hush money” for things to just “go away”. And in doing so, they facilitate these pedophiles/sexual predators to keep harming more children. In my opinion that’s condoning, not condemnation.
Which is why I say now I’m so thankful for how the Anglican church is acting. In doing so they are saying to me, we are genuinely sorry and even though we didn’t help protect others in the past, we will do all we can to prevent this from happening in the future. And the bottom line, that’s all I’ve ever wanted. I am not a church or religion “hater”. To the contrary, it’s my faith that has helped me overcome much of the pain caused by these so-called men of the cloth. And it’s because of my faith I want to see things changed WITHIN the church, not have the church TORN DOWN.
I can only hope and pray that others will follow their lead. But if the past actions are any indication of future ones, it doesn’t look good. It appears the only way things change with them is to hit them in the wallet as hard as you can. Which means survivors of CSA brave enough to come forward are forced to relive and retell their nightmares over and over through depositions, trials, etc. And by forcing survivors to do this, these religious leaders are victimizing them all over again.
If you really want to see change within your organization, it’s going to take some effort. You must do as we have been for some time now. Write and call your state and national leaders of whatever group you belong. Demand that they make REAL, LASTING change, not just empty, broken promises as they have done in the past. A quick google search will tell you who you need to contact, and if you’re having difficulty finding them, just email us and we’ll be happy to help.
Please stand with us and demand that your church, your school or any organization that harbors these pedophiles/sexual predators stop denying and start defending the ones they should…the ones they were charged to protect…the children.
the following account contains descriptions of grooming and sexual abuse.
My name is David Pittman – For 30 years I kept a secret that almost killed me. From the time I was 12 until I was 15, I was sexually abused by a youth minister at Rehoboth Baptist Church in Tucker, Georgia. I was sexually molested and raped. His name is Frankie Wiley, full name Franklin Andrew Wiley. Due to the pathetic statute of limitation laws in Georgia and too many states throughout the USA, he walks free. Until recently he was serving as an associate minister at Trinity Baptist Church in Ashburn, Ga. While he no longer holds an “paid” position at the church, he still has a leadership role as the “Worship Leader” and has access to little boys because the pastor of the church defends him. I have been told they grew up together so he’s allowing this confessed child molester continued access to potential victims of sexual abuse.
In 2006, I found Frankie serving as youth minister at Jodeco Road Baptist Church, where Jerry Light was the Pastor. I contacted Pastor Light and told him my story. He and the Chairman of Deacons, after doing their due diligence, confronted Frankie. Frankie admitted to both men that he had sexually abused me and swore to them I was the only child this happened to. He was allowed to resign. He then went back to get help from a family at a previous church in Flowery Branch, Ga. When they were made aware of the circumstances, they too told him to leave. He returned to his hometown of Ashburn, Ga and got a job with the school as a substitute teacher. When I told the superintendent, Ray Jordan, he allowed Wiley to “resign”. Jordan belongs to the same church as Wiley. Fellow advocates continue to track his activity with children via social media and personal contacts. If you look at his social media pages, he has dozens and dozens of children as “friends”. Unfortunately, the internet has given him a whole new world of potential victims.
There is an important update I need to give you as the reader. I first posted this article in October of 2012, but as of April, 2022, a total of 12 men have come forward, from 4 different churches, whose ages ranged from 9 to 15, that Frankie raped, molested or sexually assaulted in some way prior to, during or after the time he was sexually abusing me. Their words condemn Frankie as a liar, since he told church officials I was the only victim.
Some of their names are Cale Harbour, Christopher Elrod, Ray Harrell and sadly one is now deceased, Andy Harrell (Ray’s big brother). Andy gave me permission to use his name prior to is death in 2012. Unfortunately several others are not in a place of healing and told me “they just can’t talk about it right now” and I know how they feel. It’s how myself, Ray, Cale and Christopher felt for many years. But they reached out to me because they thought all this time they were the only ones and needed to talk to someone who understood what they had been through.
It’s important that you know how Frankie and other sexual predators like him operate. He invites 2-3 boys over to his house for sleepovers. He keeps 1 or 2 in another room and has the other boy stay with him in his bed. This is where the abuse and/or rape takes place. Or he will tell you that several boys are staying over and when you arrive, you are the only one…trapped.
These vultures go after others like me who come from a family of divorce or worse. They take advantage of our vulnerability; a young boy simply wanting attention from a male role model. This is their “play”, also known as “grooming” and it eventually leads to the abuse. God only knows how many victims there actually are-which is why I am writing this.
The Department of Justice tells us that “a male perpetrator who prefers boys and remains uncaught will have approximately 150 victims over the course of his life.” And one young man I mentioned, can no longer speak at all. He died in June 2012. According to what he told me, because of the shame and guilt from being molested by Frankie Wiley, he took drugs to numb the pain, the drugs lowered his ability to make proper decisions, and in the end it cost him his life. It’s clear to me that his death is on the hands of Frankie Wiley.
And since the state of Georgia has a pathetic statute of limitations on child rape, none of us are able to bring him to justice.
I called Kenneth Keene at the Georgia Baptist Convention (now called the Georgia Baptist Mission Board) to inform him of this pedophile using Southern Baptist churches in Georgia as a haven for hunting. His response was to pray for me and say “sorry but each church acts separately and there is nothing we can do.” After two conversations, I tried to tell him that Frankie had moved churches, but he stopped taking my calls and responding to my emails.
And there really isn’t enough time or space here to share how the SBC, SBC EC, GBMB, Augie Boto, Frank Page, Thomas Hammond and many others in those organizations failed me and countless other victims of sexual abuse.
It appears the Southern Baptist Convention and GBMB, as organizations, are following in the footsteps of the Roman Catholic Church. They prefer to deny and cover-up, rather than own up to the evil within. It appears the Southern Baptist Convention and its churches would rather have more children abused, molested and raped, than to be proactive, remove pedophiles from its churches and help victims.
But don’t just take my word for it, multiple organizations have found countless leaders within the Southern Baptist Church who know of instances of abuse and choose to do nothing. Mr. Keene is listed among them.
“The only thing needed for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.” Edmund Burke
How many other adults out there have suffered this atrocity and are unable to bring their abusers to justice due to the insufficient laws held by almost every state in the land? Sexual predators know this and count on it. They count on us not saying anything until it is legally too late. The reason being is most survivors of abuse aren’t capable of acknowledging what happened to them until they are about 52 years old. The statute of limitations in almost every state runs out between the ages of 18 to 23. It’s simple math for sexual predators and the organizations that protect them.
When Dr. Light contacted the pastor of Trinity Baptist, Rodney Brown, with verification that Frankie Wiley admitted to molesting/raping me, he said he would bring it to the church. Brown lied. We had to tell the congregation ourselves. While Frankie is no longer a paid staff member, he is still active with the youth. What they fail to understand is these predators NEVER stop until they are caught and incarcerated or deceased. The deacons and leadership at Trinity are either ignorant, negligent or both in failing to protect the children within their care.
When I sent an email to the parents of Trinity Baptist, after the pastor failed to tell them, he called me and said I was a bad person. Pastor Rodney Brown said I was destroying “his” church, that I caused a split in “his” church. To which I replied, “pastor, first of all, it’s not YOUR church. The “Church” is the people who make up the body of Christ, not the person standing in the pulpit. And who is the bad person here? Me, for letting the parents of Trinity know about an admitted child molester with access to their children, OR YOU,who CHOSE to keep it secret until you were FORCED to admit what I told them was the truth?
And hearing that the church split tells me that half of the people there didn’t agree with you in allowing this sexual predator to continue to be around their children.” Below you will find a link to Trinity Baptist Church where they proudly list Frankie as their worship leader. Is this the type of church you want to send your little boys and feel safe about doing it?
And to any of the people who would deny anything I’ve said, I challenge them to submit to a lie-detector test. I am more than willing to do so and testify under oath. Cale, Christopher and I have the one thing they don’t…the truth.
I wonder how many parents of the children Jerry Sandusky molested wished they had this kind of information. How many little boys would still have their innocence? How many little boys would have been protected? In my view, Rodney Brown is almost WORSE than the pedophile. A pedophile is sick and usually don’t stop until incarcerated or deceased. Rodney Brown, like the administrators at Penn State, or leaders in the Catholic Church, choose to protect the monster in their midst.
My childhood voice was strangled by the rope of molestation. My assailant is free (for now). But with your help, other victims might have the courage to come forward in time to incarcerate these predators. Most survivors have a similar feeling. Feeling trapped and forced to relive the crime in silence. And in too many cases this costs them their lives. Too many have committed suicide because they didn’t have the tools to handle the trauma. Others (including myself) turned to drugs and alcohol to numb their pain (many times ending in an overdose). And even more who are never able to have any kind of life. No loving relationships, no lasting friendships, the loss of any family or support – all due to the pain caused by the crime of abuse, molestation, and rape.
I was told by a GBI (Georgia Bureau of Investigation) investigator in 2006 something that is seared into my mind…”a pedophile is like a serial killer that leaves their victims alive.”
That is truth articulated. Read it again and really think about it. Think about a little child, trapped, unable to fight off the attacks. And then, unlike a murder victim, that little child has to relive each and every assault for the rest of their lives.
Frankie served as a music and/or youth minister at the following churches from the mid to late 70’s to 2011 – if you or anyone you know has concerns or questions, please contact me.
Grace Baptist Church, Gainesville, Ga A Baptist church in Flowery Branch, Ga. Jodeco Road Baptist, Stockbridge, Ga. Trinity Baptist, Ashburn, Ga.
He also worked as a substitute teacher at the local school system in Ashburn, Ga., sometime around 2009-2011.
If you or anyone you know has been sexually abused by Frankie Wiley or by anyone, please reach out to someone. Things are different now. You WILL be believed, you are NOT alone. Please, reach out…there are people you can trust now.
9/25/2013 – Update on the Sexual Predator, Frankie Wiley.
We have a 2013 Update that further validates and reaffirms all we knew. I am posting what ANOTHER victim of Frankie Wiley sent me. You can read it after the ***** marks and my statement about it will follow.
Here is this victim’s story…please read how to this day he feels responsible for what Frankie did to him.
I just wanted to let you know that I too encountered Frankie Wiley in my youth, growing up in Ashburn GA. It was pretty well-known in the ’70s that he was molesting kids. I know of several other boys besides myself during that time. I see you also mention Rodney Brown, and if that is the old Pastor Brown’s son from Sycamore, then he knew about Frankie back then too. I think Rodney was about Frankie’s age, or maybe a few years older, and he and his brother Eddie both knew about Frankie, heck just about everyone in town did. Back then people just called him queer and other names and kind of turned their back, perhaps most not really knowing that he was actually molesting young boys in the church. But all the kids knew. This is when Frankie was in his 20s and he was always involved in leading some kind of youth group. He particularly liked to organize campouts for boys. You get the idea.
At the time when I ended all contact with Frankie, despite his efforts to contact me, I believe he was the Minister of Music at a church in Cordele, GA. That doesn’t seem to be on your list. This would have been somewhere around 1975 or 76. Seems like he was also involved in a church musical group called Maranatha out of Cordele too.
Over the years I’ve looked online to see if he ever got caught or punished, and this website (together-we-heal.org) is the first time I ever found anything mentioning him. Apparently, he still goes UNPUNISHED and UNREFORMED. In my case this was nearly 40 years ago, so that would make him in his mid-60’s now, I think. And he’s probably done the same stuff for 40 years. Even though there were at least 3 incidents I recall, I’ve lived a pretty normal life and been able to cope, I think. I’m sure the scars have caused me some problems, but I’ve never talked about it and never told anyone that I was molested as a child, much less publicly accused Frankie. I’m probably not interested in coming forward now either, after all these years. But after finding this site I had to at least post a note. I’ve put in an email address that will actually reach me, it’s real but anonymized.
If I can provide any information that will help your cause then I’ll consider it, but I’ll probably not make my own identity public. I don’t really want to open up that old wound again, and don’t really want to admit to people who know me that this happened. Yes I was a child, but I feel like I somehow allowed it to happen too, being at a very susceptible age. So I remain ashamed to this day.
Notice how this latest victim coming forward feels responsible for what Frankie did to him? This is why we must protect the children that are currently in harm’s way. Even after being sexually abused, the victim often times feels as though it was something they did to allow it to happen. The ONLY one to blame here is Frankie Wiley! Frankie is the sexual predator. This child did NOTHING to deserve this. Help us support survivors of childhood sexual abuse, educate families about keeping children safer and identifying and prosecuting predators like Wiley.
At one time I thought I was the only person Frankie Wiley sexually molested while I was in the youth group at Rehoboth Baptist Church in Tucker, Ga. But now we know there were more before me, there were others at Rehoboth at the same time as me, and several after at other churches. Today I learned this goes back long before RBC. And this exposes another lie Frankie has told in an attempt to justify his predatory actions. He told me the reason he molested and raped me was because he was raped in seminary. Not that it’s any type of rationale, just the reason he gave. I have also learned this is the type of lie sexual predators make up in order to gain sympathy or early release if incarcerated.
Truth is, he’d been molesting little boys long before that.
Below is a comment posted to the TWH website from a victim of Frankie’s that happened long before Rehoboth and seminary and the cover-up that’s been going on to protect him. This is why we do what we do. To this day, Frankie has access to little boys and we must expose him for what he is.
There are many other “Frankie’s” out there. Please help us name them so we can help those in need receive the healing they desperately deserve!
5/15/2022 – ANOTHER Frankie Wiley/Rodney Brown/Trinity Baptist Church UPDATE
If you recall from this article, there was a time when Wiley was supposedly “fired” from Trinity Baptist Church by Rodney Brown. Well, that wasn’t the truth. Wiley was allowed to resign and quietly leave…for a time.
Wiley tried to join another church in South Georgia. Journey Church in Tifton, Georgia. We were made aware of this, warned the pastor there and they asked him not to come back. But this was just a temporary moment away from church leadership for Wiley.
Sometime during 2021 and 2022, Trinity Baptist Church left the “Cooperation” of the Southern Baptist Convention, and rebranded itself, “Trinity Community Church of Ashburn”. Same Rodney Brown as their pastor, but a different location for the church building. And seemingly most important to them, they are no longer accountable to the SBC for bringing back the admitted child rapist, Frankie Wiley.
Trinity Community Church of Ashburn and Rodney Brown have brought Wiley back into their fold,on to their stage where he is ONCE AGAIN in a position of authority in the minds and eyes of the children and adults of that church. Hard to believe? Don’t believe me? Look them up on Facebook. You’ll find them all right there together!
So all that talk from Rodney Brown about being sorry, for not knowing better, for ridding Wiley from the church to protect the kids under his care. I guess that’s all that was…talk, lies and a PR stunt. Please be sure to refresh your memory of what Brown said not that long ago.
Evidently Rodney Brown’s real belief, which match his actions, is that he couldn’t dump the SBC quick enough in order to get his buddy Wiley back on stage with him.
And just when you thought Wiley couldn’t sink any lower.He is now trying to sell 2 books. One is an autobiography he writes under his own name but fails to mention any of the boys he’s raped for decades. And the other is a “how to worship better” book under a pseudonym. I guess he wants to be able to sell them without anyone knowing who he really is and what he does. Might put a damper on sales if they know you’ve raped little boys.
Please help us expose Wiley so he can no longer profit from the pain of the lives and souls he’s destroyed!What he is doing is the definition of taking God’s name in vain.
I wish this were all some kind of tragic joke. But it’s not. It just gets worse and worse, and these people don’t seem to care what happens to their children.